life would be so boring if it was far to easy to follow Jesus
God has been really continually putting on my heart in the last little while the question of "what does it really mean to follow Jesus?"
this has been mixed in with questions like, "well if i was going to tell someone what it means to follow Jesus, how would i do that?" and "if someone was to tell me they want to follow Jesus, how would i help them to do that and what would i encourage them to say, read or think about?"
talked about this with Christop on the way home from Melbourne yesterday where we, had lunch at Credo, a part of Urban Seed, visited the Immigration Museum, and went to the Forge Postcard event where Michael Duncan shared some of his story and passion.
some of our conversation included these thoughts and some i am adding in now:
- often the way we as "Christians" "share the gospel" it is done in such a way that it is made so easy to "become a Christian" that after this decision is made the people have just been told that they need to just have "faith" in God and accept His forgivness and you have eternal life. "giving your life to Jesus" may be mentioned also but i find rarely explained as to what it really means to "give your life to Jesus" and so the person is left with this "faith" in Jesus that they now have eternal life, as if Jesus is some kind of a vending machine for the consumer world and that eternal life in heaven, Jesus will sovle all your problems, or something similar is the product that they are getting. Jesus is not a vending machine for a happy comfortable life, if Jesus were a vending machine for life (which he is NOT) happy and comfortable would not be on the label, something more like DANGER will cause brockeness, persecution, suffering and lots of people who smell, are dirty, are sick and in need of help will come to you. Other possible side effects true joy, eternal life, relationship with God, healing, blessing, gifts, and more.
- one of the other things was about how often there is a dead faith, a faith without deeds, as James talks about in his book that is in the Bible. so often we show people who "become christians" a faith without deeds, and they soon follow, with some throwing it all away because they came and got what they wanted/needed from the vending machine and now they see something else they want from another vending machine so they go for that.
- i am guilty and ask for forgivness as i seek to change
- so what does Jesus and the bible (inspired by going through the gospel book of Mark) say about following him, what does Jesus do?
- come follow me and i will make you fishers of men
- the kingdom of God is near, repent and believe the good news
- call other people to follow
- teach people about God
- cast out demons
- heal people
- pray in solitary place
- have compassion
- let people know they can have forgiveness
- have dinner with people who are called the scum
- call those who are sinners not those who think they are good enough
- even when people stand against you still always do what is right and good in God's eyes
- appoint some to learn from you that you may send them out
- speak in parables, stories so that some may turn to God
- do God's will
- consider carefully what we hear
- have rest and sleep
- have faith in God
- restore peoples dignity
- raise the dead
- send out those who have been with you to do as you have been doing
- go to a quiet place to get rest
- feed the hungry
- walk on water ( hehehe :) ) don't let things of this world stop you from doing anything but have faith in God who created all and is above all things
- do not hold onto the traditions of man but the commands of God
- make the deaf hear and the mute speak, stick your fingers in their ears and spit and touch their tongue ??? do what God says even if you may think it weird
- If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
- what does it mean to deny myself and take up my cross for Jesus? and lose my life for Jesus? will i give up the things in this world i desire to follow Jesus?
- go up a high mountain taking only your closet mates and talk with Moses and Elijah? Go with Jesus where ever he goes and when meeting with God don't forget the rest of the world, listen and remeber what Jesus has said
- help people overcome their unbelief
- be the very last, and the servant of all
- welcome those who are thought to be insignificant
- live in peace with others, don't quarrel with others who go by Jesus name
- have faith like a child, anything is possible don't question what God can do, trust him, speak it and surely it will happen
- bless those who are thought not worthy
- give up everything you have for Jesus
- leave everything you have for Jesus
- follow Jesus all the way even if it means being mocked, spat on, flogged and killed, if you feel like it raise from the dead three days later too, i'm sure it will be a sight
- do not live to be served, but to serve and give you life for others
- have mercy for those who ask
- throw people out of God's temple when they are doing the wrong things there. Get rid of the rubish from your life that corrupts the temple of God, our bodies. Don't muck around God is serious kick it out now!
- forgive other people so God may also forgive you
- don't let hypocrites get the better of you, don't be one yourself
- don't be swayed by men but hold strong to the way of God
- love God with everything in you and leave nothing out. do what he says, obey his every command. serve only the Lord God. Fear God alone. do what is right and good in God's eyes. live life for him only. love God because he loved you. (some of the inspiration for this came from Dueteronomy's correlating verses)
- love others as you do yourself. take care of others as you would yourself? treat others in a right manner with all integrity. treat people who are different than you with the same respect you would a fellow friend. be just and judge fairly showing no favouritism. speak well of others so that your words may show kindness, mercy and grace. do all you can to keep others from death. be of a pure heart towards others giving all the grace that has been given to us. love others as God has loved you. (some of the inspiration for this came from Leviticus' correlating verses)
- take the lowest seat in a house, treat others highly
- restore the dignity and respect of others
- be flogged
- stand as witnesses for Jesus before governors and kings
- preach the gospel to all natioins
- say whatever the Holy Spirit tells you when you are arrested and brought to trial
- hated by all men because of Jesus
- watch for the return of Jesus and don't be caught taking a nap
- go to the homes of those who no one visits
- protect the vunerable from those who would treat them harshly
- love even those who betray you, include them at your table when you eat
- sing a hymn with your brothers in Christ, praise God together
- when you are vulnerable openly make it clear to your close friends so that they may keep watch over you.
- seek God in your times of need, and always be mindful to follow his way and seek to do his will
- face the facts that seemingly bad things will happen to you by following God's ways, but do not be afraid God has his purposes and it is for his Glory that we must live
- stay true to the will of God no matter what it will cost you, even to death
- mockery and insults will come when you follow God's will
- go into all the world preaching the good news to everyone
- drive out demons
- snakes won't be able to harm them, neither will poison
- speak in new tongues
- heal the sick
i really like that Jesus lived by God's standards and not anyone elses, it makes following him so much more of a challenge, and getting a good kick up the ass by a real challenge is good for me. too often i have found it not so much of a challenge to be very "spiritual" in the eyes of many Christians and be an excellent "christian" by their standards, which are often far too low. i am glad God's standards are much too high. life would be so boring if it was far to easy to follow Jesus.
this has been mixed in with questions like, "well if i was going to tell someone what it means to follow Jesus, how would i do that?" and "if someone was to tell me they want to follow Jesus, how would i help them to do that and what would i encourage them to say, read or think about?"
talked about this with Christop on the way home from Melbourne yesterday where we, had lunch at Credo, a part of Urban Seed, visited the Immigration Museum, and went to the Forge Postcard event where Michael Duncan shared some of his story and passion.
some of our conversation included these thoughts and some i am adding in now:
- often the way we as "Christians" "share the gospel" it is done in such a way that it is made so easy to "become a Christian" that after this decision is made the people have just been told that they need to just have "faith" in God and accept His forgivness and you have eternal life. "giving your life to Jesus" may be mentioned also but i find rarely explained as to what it really means to "give your life to Jesus" and so the person is left with this "faith" in Jesus that they now have eternal life, as if Jesus is some kind of a vending machine for the consumer world and that eternal life in heaven, Jesus will sovle all your problems, or something similar is the product that they are getting. Jesus is not a vending machine for a happy comfortable life, if Jesus were a vending machine for life (which he is NOT) happy and comfortable would not be on the label, something more like DANGER will cause brockeness, persecution, suffering and lots of people who smell, are dirty, are sick and in need of help will come to you. Other possible side effects true joy, eternal life, relationship with God, healing, blessing, gifts, and more.
- one of the other things was about how often there is a dead faith, a faith without deeds, as James talks about in his book that is in the Bible. so often we show people who "become christians" a faith without deeds, and they soon follow, with some throwing it all away because they came and got what they wanted/needed from the vending machine and now they see something else they want from another vending machine so they go for that.
- i am guilty and ask for forgivness as i seek to change
- so what does Jesus and the bible (inspired by going through the gospel book of Mark) say about following him, what does Jesus do?
- come follow me and i will make you fishers of men
- the kingdom of God is near, repent and believe the good news
- call other people to follow
- teach people about God
- cast out demons
- heal people
- pray in solitary place
- have compassion
- let people know they can have forgiveness
- have dinner with people who are called the scum
- call those who are sinners not those who think they are good enough
- even when people stand against you still always do what is right and good in God's eyes
- appoint some to learn from you that you may send them out
- speak in parables, stories so that some may turn to God
- do God's will
- consider carefully what we hear
- have rest and sleep
- have faith in God
- restore peoples dignity
- raise the dead
- send out those who have been with you to do as you have been doing
- go to a quiet place to get rest
- feed the hungry
- walk on water ( hehehe :) ) don't let things of this world stop you from doing anything but have faith in God who created all and is above all things
- do not hold onto the traditions of man but the commands of God
- make the deaf hear and the mute speak, stick your fingers in their ears and spit and touch their tongue ??? do what God says even if you may think it weird
- If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
- what does it mean to deny myself and take up my cross for Jesus? and lose my life for Jesus? will i give up the things in this world i desire to follow Jesus?
- go up a high mountain taking only your closet mates and talk with Moses and Elijah? Go with Jesus where ever he goes and when meeting with God don't forget the rest of the world, listen and remeber what Jesus has said
- help people overcome their unbelief
- be the very last, and the servant of all
- welcome those who are thought to be insignificant
- live in peace with others, don't quarrel with others who go by Jesus name
- have faith like a child, anything is possible don't question what God can do, trust him, speak it and surely it will happen
- bless those who are thought not worthy
- give up everything you have for Jesus
- leave everything you have for Jesus
- follow Jesus all the way even if it means being mocked, spat on, flogged and killed, if you feel like it raise from the dead three days later too, i'm sure it will be a sight
- do not live to be served, but to serve and give you life for others
- have mercy for those who ask
- throw people out of God's temple when they are doing the wrong things there. Get rid of the rubish from your life that corrupts the temple of God, our bodies. Don't muck around God is serious kick it out now!
- forgive other people so God may also forgive you
- don't let hypocrites get the better of you, don't be one yourself
- don't be swayed by men but hold strong to the way of God
- love God with everything in you and leave nothing out. do what he says, obey his every command. serve only the Lord God. Fear God alone. do what is right and good in God's eyes. live life for him only. love God because he loved you. (some of the inspiration for this came from Dueteronomy's correlating verses)
- love others as you do yourself. take care of others as you would yourself? treat others in a right manner with all integrity. treat people who are different than you with the same respect you would a fellow friend. be just and judge fairly showing no favouritism. speak well of others so that your words may show kindness, mercy and grace. do all you can to keep others from death. be of a pure heart towards others giving all the grace that has been given to us. love others as God has loved you. (some of the inspiration for this came from Leviticus' correlating verses)
- take the lowest seat in a house, treat others highly
- restore the dignity and respect of others
- be flogged
- stand as witnesses for Jesus before governors and kings
- preach the gospel to all natioins
- say whatever the Holy Spirit tells you when you are arrested and brought to trial
- hated by all men because of Jesus
- watch for the return of Jesus and don't be caught taking a nap
- go to the homes of those who no one visits
- protect the vunerable from those who would treat them harshly
- love even those who betray you, include them at your table when you eat
- sing a hymn with your brothers in Christ, praise God together
- when you are vulnerable openly make it clear to your close friends so that they may keep watch over you.
- seek God in your times of need, and always be mindful to follow his way and seek to do his will
- face the facts that seemingly bad things will happen to you by following God's ways, but do not be afraid God has his purposes and it is for his Glory that we must live
- stay true to the will of God no matter what it will cost you, even to death
- mockery and insults will come when you follow God's will
- go into all the world preaching the good news to everyone
- drive out demons
- snakes won't be able to harm them, neither will poison
- speak in new tongues
- heal the sick
i really like that Jesus lived by God's standards and not anyone elses, it makes following him so much more of a challenge, and getting a good kick up the ass by a real challenge is good for me. too often i have found it not so much of a challenge to be very "spiritual" in the eyes of many Christians and be an excellent "christian" by their standards, which are often far too low. i am glad God's standards are much too high. life would be so boring if it was far to easy to follow Jesus.
posted by John M @ 12:18 pm
7 Comments:
At 28 October, 2005 15:00,
Tab said…
From my study in church history lately, I have realised how until 1500's and beyond there was no realisation of God's grace, and how salvation IS a free gift.
I think that things like this swing on a pendulum, and James (author of the letter from James)is right, that faith and actions go together, not because we are saved by actions, but actions are evidence of that faith. Faith cannot exist without exhibiting signs of that - and those you don't have to "try" to make-up, they grow. But actions CAN exist without faith, hence the reason the protestant church even today has such an emphesis on faith.
That may unfortunatly look like "making it easy" for people, and some people, seeing that error in trying to make it easier. (a good reason to study history - explains some things!)
Yes the life Christ calls us too is a tough one - but one we grow in. JEsus continually called his disciples to higher levels. He didin't begin by saying, "come die for me" he simply said "come and see" then "come follow me" and then "go", and so on. The same too with the missionary Paul. His writings (if you read them in order of writing, not the New Testament lay out" reveal an understanding of Christ (called Christology)which developed, deepend and grew during his lifetime.
Hence the need for discipleship of young Christians.
God, Jesus simply calls each of us to faith in him to begin. That's all it takes to start. but then he calls us to relationship with him that grows, and it is in that we discover the things that you speak of.
Of course I'm not advocating in anyway that we "trick" people, or give them a sugar coated gospel. But as Paul wrote, babies need baby food, and grow up to meat. Lets not swing the pendulum too far the other way and force them to eat meat right away. They will choke and die.
At 28 October, 2005 15:04,
Tab said…
Oh, by the way, how was lunch at Credo?
At 28 October, 2005 23:14,
John M said…
mmm yeah thats good Tab, we can't just feed them meat right away, they would probably choke and die. I think though that it has something more to do with the way we protray Jesus and the example we give them of who he is by the way we live out our lives.
There needs to be a real authenticity that comes through in how we seek to daily follow Jesus.
I think there are things that we can be changing in our lives each day as we decide to choose to go God's ways.
And yes lunch at Credo was good, sat across the table from these two guys who live near Frankston, one was drinking grog to get off Heroin, they seemed like fairly good blokes, as most people are when you sit and talk with them i find, and yeah we ate lunch, and yes Tab i had Tuna cassarole stuff, with rice, it wasn't too bad(i don't really like tuna). Had a good chat with another guy who works for some recycling company that is what Christop told me, other than that he is a graphic designer and is apart of the community there i suppose.
Chatted with other urban seed people for a while after others had left after getting their lunchtime feed.
At 30 October, 2005 20:20,
Susan Barnes said…
I think following Jesus means different things for different people. For some it is go sell everything you have and give it to the poor. For others it is go home to your family and tell them what God has done for you.
If I was going to tell someone else what it means to follow Jesus I would emphasis the need to have a close relationship with Jesus through prayer, study etc. so they would come to understanding of what Jesus is saying to them as an individual.
At 31 October, 2005 17:06,
John M said…
Susan can I ask what you would have them study specifically?
And yes it does mean different things for different people, i think though when we truly follow Jesus we will all in some way suffer for doing so. It is probably the ways in which we suffer that will differ.
I am thinking that this is something that will happen when we look at the way we live and decide to make uneasy decisions, about how we spend our time and money, so to further the Kingdom of God and show his love to others.
At 31 October, 2005 21:52,
Susan Barnes said…
Probably I would tell them to study the life of Christ, particularly as it is written in the gospels.
My Christian experience is such that I don't often think of it in terms of suffering. My life is so much better now. I was severly depressed before becoming a Christian. I remember someone talking about "giving your life to Jesus" and I thought "why not? I don't want my life anyway."
Living for God became more difficult later, after my life got better, (which is kind of ironic because my life only got better because I became a Christian!).
At 31 October, 2005 23:01,
John M said…
mmm yeah i mean suffering in a very broad sense, and maybe it is the wrong term maybe, sacrifice is a better way to put it. I really don't know yet.
I am trying to figure out what do i need, and how much do i need. What things can i do without and will i and the mission God has on this earth be better off with very little, and where is the balance of how well i live and how much i give to those who have not even close to what i have.
Really i am not interested in giving the money God has given me to a church that does not much more than waste it on itself. I want to spend it wisely, and help those who have little.
I think about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven and knowing of how many people accross the world living in poverty makes me question why i have what i do, and how can our society waste so much money and let so many people die, because we want to be comfortable.
I am confused about our mission and the best way to go about it. Would it be better if we gave up all our worldy riches and just made do with much much less. Because I know when you have much less you just make do and get used to it and it isn't such a big deal.
I know Jesus said we would always have the poor but i don't think he meant that we should just sit by and do nothing about it. I know that our mission is to Go make Disciples, but i also know that our mission is to Love our Neighbour. And I know that above all we should Love God, and to Love God is to obey his commands and they are not a burden.
I cannot place any boundries on my thoughts and understanding of what it truly means to follow Jesus. To to compare it to any other person is not do able. There is no greater benchmark, and that benchmark is way beyond anyone i know. I want to see God do so much in Australia, and i want to live a life that replicates the impact that Jesus had on this earth.
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